100% agree Christmas Carol is great, needs more love.
That said I will brook no tolerance of this willful slander of Kermit the Frog. Muppet Christmas Carol is the best adaptation, better than the book, fight me.
The best essay I've ever read on the topic of redemption. He mostly warns of the dangers that come from allow redemption to be weaponized, and illustrates it with an example.
"None of this service was performative. None of it was designed to pave the way for his return to public life. Once he lost the public trust, he never attempted to gain it back.
The irony is that he did in fact recover that trust. In 1975 he was awarded a CBE for his charitable work, and in 1995, he sat at Queen Elizabeth’s right at a dinner..."
Thanks for posting about this. For me the most difficult part about understanding redemption arcs is the way they are weaponized. I have certainly been guilty of carrying water for an abuser who I wanted to believe had really changed (multiple times). I’ve also been pretty severely hurt by someone who kept promising he had changed.
There’s a very common scenario with physically abusive relationships where women stay with men who keep promising to change and then the men kill them, and sometimes their children too. Often these women can’t get help until it’s too late.
So it has felt to me that if I have often been a sucker/patsy for this type of guy, and also that it is actually dangerous to be too much of a sucker, yet I also feel so aware of that transformative potential and it feels truly tragic to assume it won’t happen. I have struggled with this a lot…
A piece of writing advice I've gotten was "show, don't tell". I think redemption might be similar. It's not something to be said and promised so much as it is something to demonstrate consistently, and if someone promises it and then breaks it in a way that shows no growth, they've shown they're willing to lie about it
There's also certain things where redemption is possible, but you don't need to be the one to see it. They might need the hard lesson for it to sink in, and they can redeem themself by being better for someone else
Part of the problem is that numerous social environments and even systems in our society (eg, the family court system, and also a lot of parties I attend) have been built on top of the assumption that a person who has been severely betrayed/used has the responsibility to forgive (or settle with) their betrayer in order to make things easier for others. The reality of course is that doing this actually enables the betrayer to do the same thing to others, or possibly to further harass, hurt, or murder the person they already are targeting.
The family court system is full of stories like this - women who tried to run, who tried to report their abuser, but the system moved too slowly and/or told them they ought to make nice for the sake of the children, and they weren’t able to get away because the system wouldn’t let them (eg if the guy still had partial custody or some amount of legal control over the children), and then the guy killed them. I know I mentioned this example in my previous comment but I mention it again because I’m trying to clarify the systemic failure and that the women in question can’t just “decline to forgive” and move on - they’re trapped.
So the issue of transformation may seem like it works one way between individuals. But there are also broader systems and implications for every act of betrayal and transformation. If the system can’t protect people who are placed in the position of helping someone else transform (and sometimes are then constrained in that position unwillingly) then perhaps the system needs updating. But this isn’t how the conversation usually goes. Usually it is portrayed as a wholly individual set of acts and enforced as such, too: The betrayed person has the option to forgive; the traitor has the option of transformation.
Wow, yes! It is rare to find a book that actually discusses how someone's spiritual transformation plays out in real-world situations.
Have you read the Marjorie Allingham book, "The Tiger in the Smoke"? Your review made me think of it. That book isn't about redemption, exactly, but about how the day-by-day, moment-by-moment choices someone makes can simultaneously indicate the state of their soul and continue to shape it and transform it. The theme is ethics, but it's a gripping thriller. Really fantastic and unlike any other book I've read! I think you might like it.
You're welcome! It's technically in a series but totally works as a standalone. She also wrote an absolute zinger called "The Mind Readers" about kids who find an experimental mind reading device, and about how that would actually work and feel.
100% agree Christmas Carol is great, needs more love.
That said I will brook no tolerance of this willful slander of Kermit the Frog. Muppet Christmas Carol is the best adaptation, better than the book, fight me.
https://thedispatch.com/newsletter/frenchpress/remembering-what-repentance-looks-like/
The best essay I've ever read on the topic of redemption. He mostly warns of the dangers that come from allow redemption to be weaponized, and illustrates it with an example.
"None of this service was performative. None of it was designed to pave the way for his return to public life. Once he lost the public trust, he never attempted to gain it back.
The irony is that he did in fact recover that trust. In 1975 he was awarded a CBE for his charitable work, and in 1995, he sat at Queen Elizabeth’s right at a dinner..."
You had me at footnote number one.
Thanks for posting about this. For me the most difficult part about understanding redemption arcs is the way they are weaponized. I have certainly been guilty of carrying water for an abuser who I wanted to believe had really changed (multiple times). I’ve also been pretty severely hurt by someone who kept promising he had changed.
There’s a very common scenario with physically abusive relationships where women stay with men who keep promising to change and then the men kill them, and sometimes their children too. Often these women can’t get help until it’s too late.
So it has felt to me that if I have often been a sucker/patsy for this type of guy, and also that it is actually dangerous to be too much of a sucker, yet I also feel so aware of that transformative potential and it feels truly tragic to assume it won’t happen. I have struggled with this a lot…
A piece of writing advice I've gotten was "show, don't tell". I think redemption might be similar. It's not something to be said and promised so much as it is something to demonstrate consistently, and if someone promises it and then breaks it in a way that shows no growth, they've shown they're willing to lie about it
There's also certain things where redemption is possible, but you don't need to be the one to see it. They might need the hard lesson for it to sink in, and they can redeem themself by being better for someone else
Part of the problem is that numerous social environments and even systems in our society (eg, the family court system, and also a lot of parties I attend) have been built on top of the assumption that a person who has been severely betrayed/used has the responsibility to forgive (or settle with) their betrayer in order to make things easier for others. The reality of course is that doing this actually enables the betrayer to do the same thing to others, or possibly to further harass, hurt, or murder the person they already are targeting.
The family court system is full of stories like this - women who tried to run, who tried to report their abuser, but the system moved too slowly and/or told them they ought to make nice for the sake of the children, and they weren’t able to get away because the system wouldn’t let them (eg if the guy still had partial custody or some amount of legal control over the children), and then the guy killed them. I know I mentioned this example in my previous comment but I mention it again because I’m trying to clarify the systemic failure and that the women in question can’t just “decline to forgive” and move on - they’re trapped.
So the issue of transformation may seem like it works one way between individuals. But there are also broader systems and implications for every act of betrayal and transformation. If the system can’t protect people who are placed in the position of helping someone else transform (and sometimes are then constrained in that position unwillingly) then perhaps the system needs updating. But this isn’t how the conversation usually goes. Usually it is portrayed as a wholly individual set of acts and enforced as such, too: The betrayed person has the option to forgive; the traitor has the option of transformation.
This is really true and stunningly helpful to me in this given moment, thank you.
I am both very glad to be helpful and also very sorry that Viper's Tangle in particular is helpful!
Lol me too!!
Wow, yes! It is rare to find a book that actually discusses how someone's spiritual transformation plays out in real-world situations.
Have you read the Marjorie Allingham book, "The Tiger in the Smoke"? Your review made me think of it. That book isn't about redemption, exactly, but about how the day-by-day, moment-by-moment choices someone makes can simultaneously indicate the state of their soul and continue to shape it and transform it. The theme is ethics, but it's a gripping thriller. Really fantastic and unlike any other book I've read! I think you might like it.
just requested it from the library thanks for the recommendation!!!
You're welcome! It's technically in a series but totally works as a standalone. She also wrote an absolute zinger called "The Mind Readers" about kids who find an experimental mind reading device, and about how that would actually work and feel.